The Enlightenment Project for the LoopLofts9 is a forum for interesting conversations, thought-provoking debates, and a chance to be updated on any random news/topics/issues going on in life.
The rules:
1. No insulting other commenters
2. No unnecessary cursing, this is an educated discussion
3. If possible back up your argument with sources (haha)
Saturday, May 16, 2009
I. Commend Hip Hop We Come to Ressurect Youuuu: Is Hip-Hop in Rigor Mortis?
After watching several Soulja Boy and Ricky Bobby Videos on Youtube, what are your thoughts?
Complex answer: it *was* in rigor mortis prior to fall 2007. The controversy created by Nas's extreme statement "hop-hop is dead" was the defibrillation needed to shock hip-hop's dying heart back to life.
(Ok so now would be a great place to properly define hip-hop. Unfortunately I do not have a good definition, so for ease I'm just going to call it rap music with meaningful lyrics set to well-orchestrated beats)
Nas dropped "Hip-Hop is Dead" on Dec. 15, 2006. At first, people were outraged and vehemently opposed his stance. Few people actually took the time to ask: what top hip-hop songs of 2006 was he referring to? "Grillz" - Nelly et al. "Riding Dirty" - Chamillionaire. "It's Goin Down" - Yung Joc. "I Think They Like Me", "Lean Wit It, Rock Wit It" - Dem Franchise Boyz. "Soul Surivor" - Akon and Young Jeezy (tryna take it easy). The list goes on. Oh and this was the year T-Pain came on the scene. A majority of this music was snap music. Though hip-hop has been on the decline since the 90s, snap music's empty lyrics and f*** effort beats broke the levy and completely watered down the essence of hip-hop. It was diminished to a snappy beat the kids could rock to. In other words it was crappy rap music + a dance. Speaking of rap + dance, Soulja Boy dropped his first single, "Crank That" a mere three months after Nas's release. At that point, very few people could argue against Nas; record sales were plummeting and crappier and crappier artists dropped with each passing day. As Soulja Boy took over the radio and the internet(s), a beautiful thing happened: artists took Nas's statement to heart and challenged it by releasing exemplary CDs.
Enter "Graduation".
Even though the 50 vs. Kanye race to platinum might have solely been a media ploy, it was a major step in hip-hop artists upping their game by releasing more interesting music. You have to admit, "Graduation" was WAY in left field. Techno beats & rap? Who does that?? Artists who want to resuscitate a dying art form, that's who! If you rewind to July 2007, we heard a different sound from Common on "Finding Forever" ( and even a collabo with Lily Allen, once again demonstrating the capability of a hip-hop artist who cares to make an effort). In August 2007 we heard some of the most soulful beats on Talib Kweli's "Eardrum". And in Nov 2007, Jay released "American Gangster", which was considerably better than some of his previous efforts (cough "Kingdom Come" cough). Oh and hip-hop ended 2007 right with Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool". I mean, do I really need to break down how greatmazing that CD was?! No, I think not lol.
In 2008, TI released "Paper Trail" (which was surprisingly good) and people finally got hip to M.I.A. Ludacris then released "Theater of the Mind" (also surprisingly good). Perhaps the most important hip-hop album of 2008 was Lil Wayne's "Tha Carter 3". Despite the fact that Wayne jumped on every damn remix known to man and spit some of the wackest ish I've ever heard, he still managed to save his best verses for himself. His word-play was unmatched at the time of his release and caused him to sell a million records in a week.
I just took a trip down hip-hop memory lane to say this: hip-hop is no longer dead. There are artists who actually take the time to compose (yes, compose!) beats and write insightful lyrics. I'm not saying there aren't rachet rappers out there, but what I am arguing is that while these crappy rappers bask in their 15 mins of fame, they will not be remembered in the annals of time. Hip-hop is not going to be remembered for the likes of Hurricane Chris and Gucci Mane. They are just blips in it's legacy of great MCs. Hip hop history books are going to be written about Lupe, Jay, Kanye, and other great rappers because their music is actually worth listening to. I mean think about old school rappers, the so-called "pioneers of rap". Who remembers that one guy who can't rhyme and has wack beats but sold lots of records during the summer of 1977? No one. So don't worry about Soulja Boy. He will be forgotten.
Lil Wayne really sums it up best: "hip hop ain't dead, it just had a heart attack." The phenomenal MCs who continue to produce noteworthy music resuscitated the ailing genre and are paving the way for future artists.
Source: WIKIPEDIA.
Sidebar: I didn't even touch on 2009... oh goodness! Tomorrow I'll write about emo rap and the evolution of hip-hop (cliff-hanger!)
I do not think Hip Hop is Dead or necessarily was ever dead. With the coming of artists such as Soulja Boy, who I must admit does make some catchy stuff but is in no way valid or "good" music, I did at one point think that "Hip-Hop" was in its demise. I find it difficult to define hip hop/rap because it is evolving sooooooo much, as well as other musical genres tambien. Sorry that was the Ecuador talking. R&B, country, pop are no way in the same shape they were in during their rise to popularity. We've gone from crooners such as Smokey to vocal humping by artists such as Bobby Valentino or even Pleasure P.
My attitude toward hip hop being dead has changed to no because even in the onslaught of Soulja Boy and similar artists. "Music is for the youth" Nelly. I completely agree. No matter how terrible an artists lyrics are, the music must relate to what the fans/majority want, no matter how much others like gritty, meaningful, political hip-hop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tilKe0Z8B7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wA3AgQJls
Watch the first link first.
Despite how godawful S_Beezy's (hahaha) lyrics are, the kids love him. Shoooot we do to because we all have danced to his cuts at parties, have them on our ipods and know the lyrics. Even as we spit every line, we always are thinking "He is crap and not saying anything, doesn't even have to be deep, but really Bird Walk? Oh well because I'm still cranking that and snapping and rolling."
Nelly is a fairly similar artist. "Hot n Herr" only about dancing and nothing really deep, but it will always remind us class of '10'ers of going into our Freshman Year of High School. Rappers want to make stuff people want to listen to, enjoy and have fun. Simple as that. Deeper artists, both young and old serve a completely different purpose. Some tracks make you think and leave you brooding and emotional, while others make you get up do every dance you learned that week.
TJTight vehemently co-signs M. Alawode's comments. Since it's inception, hip-hop as acted as a mouthpiece for the Black community...good, bad and ugly (i.e. The human jerky we affectinately refer to as Flaaaavor Flav). The music provides social commentary and reflects the salient concerns of a people who desperately need leaders and, as my homies BlackStar say, knowledge of self. In a post-civil rights, post Black power society, many Blacks have entered, however prematurely, a post-racial society to the detriment of American society at large. All that to say, we lost and hip-hop is crying out. All is not lost though, conscious rap, in the glorious form of Common, Lupe, Dead Prez, Talib, etc., is alive and well. Still, we are not a monolithic community, and our music reflects that seniment. Pookie and them have Soulja boy tell em and crew. The more intellectual types (read: us) still have many other viable options that reflect out experiences and sensibilities and ish.
Good answer, MChildress (lol). And I see you with the video blog :)
Oh and I know I said I was gonna write about artists in 2009, but I guess I've already made my point... and we all seem to be on the same page so far. But as soon as a dissenter comes along, best believe I got something to say haha
Hip-Hop is dead. It's nowhere near what it used to be in terms of musical quality and if the hip-hop culture were a person it'd be considered a sell-out to the black community. It's been dying a slow death since the Tootsie Roll...but the Chicken Noodle Soup and Crank dat Soulja Boy songs were just nails on the coffin!
Hip-hop is not dead; it has evolved and adapted to the changing likes of its consumers. I'm not sure if this is just true of me and my friends or Black ppl at WashU or Black ppl in college in general, but around the time that Nas declared that hip-hop is dead I/we started listening to a lot of white music. I remember playing The Evolution of Robin Thicke to death during fall 06! A lot of ppl (including "urban" radio DJs) were also bumping Justin Timberlake, Amy Winehouse, Coldplay, Maroon 5, Lily Allen, etc. And how did hip-hop respond? By making collabos with all these artist! You had JT+Timbaland+TI, Amy Winehouse+Jay-Z+Wale Robin Thicke+Lil Wayne and the list goes on. Maroon 5 dipped their toes into the Black pool by making tracks with Rihanna and MJB (yes, they're not rappers, but I'm sure Maroon 5 will get there). Shoot, Jay-Z and Coldplay even have a mash-up album, Viva La Hova!
Another thing that happened around the time of Nas's statement is that people started to troll the internet for underground music; hence the rise of (formerly) little known rappers of Wale, Drake, Kid Cudi, Asher Roth, M.I.A. and such. The only people underground rappers can afford to make tracks with are either 1) other underground rappers or 2) indie/local singers and bands. They were already cool with making music with a diverse spectrum of artists and I believe that is one reason why they are experiencing so much success today. They also realized that being a gangster/thug went out with the 90s. That helped too.
Some might say that musical influences from different genres has detracted from hip-hop culture by taking away its edge. I mean, can you really rap about how you shoot n****s dead and sling rock over a harmonious piano melody? I argue YES, but you've got to class it up! I think rappers got more clever when they put themselves in a position to branch out of their comfort zones while staying true to themselves and their fans. To do so, I believe that they dug deep and wrote more sophisticated rhymes. This produced verses with greater emotional undertones. Suddenly rappers weren't afraid to make music that left them vulnerable instead of thugged out. Some are calling this evolved form of hip-hop emo rap (reference: http://youhypesikenah.blogspot.com/search?q=emo+rap ). I don't think that this change detracted from hip-hop; I think it made it better!
Ejemplo: Drake. Anyone that knows me knows I love him. Dearly. And if you know Drake, you know he's not a gangster. On his mixtape "So Far Gone", he demonstrates through his incredible lyricism that it's ok for rappers to... feel! He exposes the pain he's felt from heartbreak and his parent's divorce. He admits that he rented a phantom just to look cool. He even spits verses over songs by super random Swedish artists like Lykke Li and Peter Bjorn and John. But hip-hop in 2009 isn't all deep and artsy. On Uptown and November 18th he's repping his city (T-dot) and Houston and smoking weed. And all these random emotions and artists and themes work SO well together!
Concerning hip-hop as a culture (thank for bringing this up MChildress), the same changes are happening amongst the people. Girbaud jeans, bandanas, tall tees and other thug couture fashions are out of style! Guys are wearing trendy sneakers (off the court) and sophisticated button-ups (and not going to court)... and I love it! Black people are going out of their comfort zones and attending non-hbcu's, blasting their fave pop/rock songs, going to white frat parties, shopping at stores that sell non-"urban" apparel, blogging etc. Black people are achieving degrees, better jobs, nicer cars/houses... and we look good doing it! We're branching out. We're allowing ourselves to explore different areas of interest.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: WAKE UP WORLD (and haters)... HIP-HOP IS NOT MONOLITHIC!!!
There is only a certain amount of times and ways that artists can rap about cocaine, shootings, the hood made me hard, f**** putas y sus madres. It can be cool to listen to, usually because of a dope beat, but after that it can only go so far. If any of you know me, you know I am a goofball and artists such as Kid Cudi, Asher Roth, Wale, Cory Gunz, Ludacris, etc. appeal to me because they rap about random a** stuff, the type of stuff I think about and find hilarious. I highly suggest buying Ash Roth's album Asleep in the Bread Aisle and downloading the free mixtape.
To me it symbolizes how Hip-hop kinda started. Sugarhill Gang talked about nothing essentially deeply political or any sort of thing like that. Hip hop is too versatile to be cornered into one arena because then we would all be listening to the same type of music and artistic styles.
Teenagers want to bump and grind, show off their dance moves, act a fool and just let loose, therefore parties a la mode de Soulja Boy. His rhymes are still whack.
Simple answer: no.
ReplyDeleteComplex answer: it *was* in rigor mortis prior to fall 2007. The controversy created by Nas's extreme statement "hop-hop is dead" was the defibrillation needed to shock hip-hop's dying heart back to life.
(Ok so now would be a great place to properly define hip-hop. Unfortunately I do not have a good definition, so for ease I'm just going to call it rap music with meaningful lyrics set to well-orchestrated beats)
Nas dropped "Hip-Hop is Dead" on Dec. 15, 2006. At first, people were outraged and vehemently opposed his stance. Few people actually took the time to ask: what top hip-hop songs of 2006 was he referring to? "Grillz" - Nelly et al. "Riding Dirty" - Chamillionaire. "It's Goin Down" - Yung Joc. "I Think They Like Me", "Lean Wit It, Rock Wit It" - Dem Franchise Boyz. "Soul Surivor" - Akon and Young Jeezy (tryna take it easy). The list goes on. Oh and this was the year T-Pain came on the scene. A majority of this music was snap music. Though hip-hop has been on the decline since the 90s, snap music's empty lyrics and f*** effort beats broke the levy and completely watered down the essence of hip-hop. It was diminished to a snappy beat the kids could rock to. In other words it was crappy rap music + a dance. Speaking of rap + dance, Soulja Boy dropped his first single, "Crank That" a mere three months after Nas's release. At that point, very few people could argue against Nas; record sales were plummeting and crappier and crappier artists dropped with each passing day. As Soulja Boy took over the radio and the internet(s), a beautiful thing happened: artists took Nas's statement to heart and challenged it by releasing exemplary CDs.
Enter "Graduation".
Even though the 50 vs. Kanye race to platinum might have solely been a media ploy, it was a major step in hip-hop artists upping their game by releasing more interesting music. You have to admit, "Graduation" was WAY in left field. Techno beats & rap? Who does that?? Artists who want to resuscitate a dying art form, that's who! If you rewind to July 2007, we heard a different sound from Common on "Finding Forever" ( and even a collabo with Lily Allen, once again demonstrating the capability of a hip-hop artist who cares to make an effort). In August 2007 we heard some of the most soulful beats on Talib Kweli's "Eardrum". And in Nov 2007, Jay released "American Gangster", which was considerably better than some of his previous efforts (cough "Kingdom Come" cough). Oh and hip-hop ended 2007 right with Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool". I mean, do I really need to break down how greatmazing that CD was?! No, I think not lol.
In 2008, TI released "Paper Trail" (which was surprisingly good) and people finally got hip to M.I.A. Ludacris then released "Theater of the Mind" (also surprisingly good). Perhaps the most important hip-hop album of 2008 was Lil Wayne's "Tha Carter 3". Despite the fact that Wayne jumped on every damn remix known to man and spit some of the wackest ish I've ever heard, he still managed to save his best verses for himself. His word-play was unmatched at the time of his release and caused him to sell a million records in a week.
I just took a trip down hip-hop memory lane to say this: hip-hop is no longer dead. There are artists who actually take the time to compose (yes, compose!) beats and write insightful lyrics. I'm not saying there aren't rachet rappers out there, but what I am arguing is that while these crappy rappers bask in their 15 mins of fame, they will not be remembered in the annals of time. Hip-hop is not going to be remembered for the likes of Hurricane Chris and Gucci Mane. They are just blips in it's legacy of great MCs. Hip hop history books are going to be written about Lupe, Jay, Kanye, and other great rappers because their music is actually worth listening to. I mean think about old school rappers, the so-called "pioneers of rap". Who remembers that one guy who can't rhyme and has wack beats but sold lots of records during the summer of 1977? No one. So don't worry about Soulja Boy. He will be forgotten.
Lil Wayne really sums it up best: "hip hop ain't dead, it just had a heart attack." The phenomenal MCs who continue to produce noteworthy music resuscitated the ailing genre and are paving the way for future artists.
Source: WIKIPEDIA.
Sidebar: I didn't even touch on 2009... oh goodness! Tomorrow I'll write about emo rap and the evolution of hip-hop (cliff-hanger!)
Wow Molly. You did write a novel.
ReplyDeleteThis is Janice, idk if that can be seen.
I do not think Hip Hop is Dead or necessarily was ever dead. With the coming of artists such as Soulja Boy, who I must admit does make some catchy stuff but is in no way valid or "good" music, I did at one point think that "Hip-Hop" was in its demise. I find it difficult to define hip hop/rap because it is evolving sooooooo much, as well as other musical genres tambien. Sorry that was the Ecuador talking. R&B, country, pop are no way in the same shape they were in during their rise to popularity. We've gone from crooners such as Smokey to vocal humping by artists such as Bobby Valentino or even Pleasure P.
My attitude toward hip hop being dead has changed to no because even in the onslaught of Soulja Boy and similar artists. "Music is for the youth" Nelly. I completely agree. No matter how terrible an artists lyrics are, the music must relate to what the fans/majority want, no matter how much others like gritty, meaningful, political hip-hop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tilKe0Z8B7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wA3AgQJls
Watch the first link first.
Despite how godawful S_Beezy's (hahaha) lyrics are, the kids love him. Shoooot we do to because we all have danced to his cuts at parties, have them on our ipods and know the lyrics. Even as we spit every line, we always are thinking "He is crap and not saying anything, doesn't even have to be deep, but really Bird Walk? Oh well because I'm still cranking that and snapping and rolling."
Nelly is a fairly similar artist. "Hot n Herr" only about dancing and nothing really deep, but it will always remind us class of '10'ers of going into our Freshman Year of High School. Rappers want to make stuff people want to listen to, enjoy and have fun. Simple as that. Deeper artists, both young and old serve a completely different purpose. Some tracks make you think and leave you brooding and emotional, while others make you get up do every dance you learned that week.
I apologize for my horrible grammar. I should have proofread. Lo siento.
ReplyDeleteTJTight vehemently co-signs M. Alawode's comments.
ReplyDeleteSince it's inception, hip-hop as acted as a mouthpiece for the Black community...good, bad and ugly (i.e. The human jerky we affectinately refer to as Flaaaavor Flav). The music provides social commentary and reflects the salient concerns of a people who desperately need leaders and, as my homies BlackStar say, knowledge of self. In a post-civil rights, post Black power society, many Blacks have entered, however prematurely, a post-racial society to the detriment of American society at large. All that to say, we lost and hip-hop is crying out. All is not lost though, conscious rap, in the glorious form of Common, Lupe, Dead Prez, Talib, etc., is alive and well. Still, we are not a monolithic community, and our music reflects that seniment. Pookie and them have Soulja boy tell em and crew. The more intellectual types (read: us) still have many other viable options that reflect out experiences and sensibilities and ish.
Ok so I was writing a comment and decided I could get my thoughts out quicker through my very first video blog :-)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTYbngxY8qM
Good answer, MChildress (lol). And I see you with the video blog :)
ReplyDeleteOh and I know I said I was gonna write about artists in 2009, but I guess I've already made my point... and we all seem to be on the same page so far. But as soon as a dissenter comes along, best believe I got something to say haha
Just to hear u out M Alawode...
ReplyDeleteHip-Hop is dead. It's nowhere near what it used to be in terms of musical quality and if the hip-hop culture were a person it'd be considered a sell-out to the black community. It's been dying a slow death since the Tootsie Roll...but the Chicken Noodle Soup and Crank dat Soulja Boy songs were just nails on the coffin!
:-)
LOL!!!!
ReplyDeleteOk here we go...
Hip-hop is not dead; it has evolved and adapted to the changing likes of its consumers. I'm not sure if this is just true of me and my friends or Black ppl at WashU or Black ppl in college in general, but around the time that Nas declared that hip-hop is dead I/we started listening to a lot of white music. I remember playing The Evolution of Robin Thicke to death during fall 06! A lot of ppl (including "urban" radio DJs) were also bumping Justin Timberlake, Amy Winehouse, Coldplay, Maroon 5, Lily Allen, etc. And how did hip-hop respond? By making collabos with all these artist! You had JT+Timbaland+TI, Amy Winehouse+Jay-Z+Wale Robin Thicke+Lil Wayne and the list goes on. Maroon 5 dipped their toes into the Black pool by making tracks with Rihanna and MJB (yes, they're not rappers, but I'm sure Maroon 5 will get there). Shoot, Jay-Z and Coldplay even have a mash-up album, Viva La Hova!
Another thing that happened around the time of Nas's statement is that people started to troll the internet for underground music; hence the rise of (formerly) little known rappers of Wale, Drake, Kid Cudi, Asher Roth, M.I.A. and such. The only people underground rappers can afford to make tracks with are either 1) other underground rappers or 2) indie/local singers and bands. They were already cool with making music with a diverse spectrum of artists and I believe that is one reason why they are experiencing so much success today. They also realized that being a gangster/thug went out with the 90s. That helped too.
Some might say that musical influences from different genres has detracted from hip-hop culture by taking away its edge. I mean, can you really rap about how you shoot n****s dead and sling rock over a harmonious piano melody? I argue YES, but you've got to class it up! I think rappers got more clever when they put themselves in a position to branch out of their comfort zones while staying true to themselves and their fans. To do so, I believe that they dug deep and wrote more sophisticated rhymes. This produced verses with greater emotional undertones. Suddenly rappers weren't afraid to make music that left them vulnerable instead of thugged out. Some are calling this evolved form of hip-hop emo rap (reference: http://youhypesikenah.blogspot.com/search?q=emo+rap ). I don't think that this change detracted from hip-hop; I think it made it better!
Ejemplo: Drake.
Anyone that knows me knows I love him. Dearly. And if you know Drake, you know he's not a gangster. On his mixtape "So Far Gone", he demonstrates through his incredible lyricism that it's ok for rappers to... feel! He exposes the pain he's felt from heartbreak and his parent's divorce. He admits that he rented a phantom just to look cool. He even spits verses over songs by super random Swedish artists like Lykke Li and Peter Bjorn and John. But hip-hop in 2009 isn't all deep and artsy. On Uptown and November 18th he's repping his city (T-dot) and Houston and smoking weed. And all these random emotions and artists and themes work SO well together!
Concerning hip-hop as a culture (thank for bringing this up MChildress), the same changes are happening amongst the people. Girbaud jeans, bandanas, tall tees and other thug couture fashions are out of style! Guys are wearing trendy sneakers (off the court) and sophisticated button-ups (and not going to court)... and I love it! Black people are going out of their comfort zones and attending non-hbcu's, blasting their fave pop/rock songs, going to white frat parties, shopping at stores that sell non-"urban" apparel, blogging etc. Black people are achieving degrees, better jobs, nicer cars/houses... and we look good doing it! We're branching out. We're allowing ourselves to explore different areas of interest.
In conclusion, I'd like to say:
WAKE UP WORLD (and haters)... HIP-HOP IS NOT MONOLITHIC!!!
M. Alawode...I cosign completely.
ReplyDeleteHip-Hop and music changes with the demografic.
There is only a certain amount of times and ways that artists can rap about cocaine, shootings, the hood made me hard, f**** putas y sus madres. It can be cool to listen to, usually because of a dope beat, but after that it can only go so far. If any of you know me, you know I am a goofball and artists such as Kid Cudi, Asher Roth, Wale, Cory Gunz, Ludacris, etc. appeal to me because they rap about random a** stuff, the type of stuff I think about and find hilarious. I highly suggest buying Ash Roth's album Asleep in the Bread Aisle and downloading the free mixtape.
To me it symbolizes how Hip-hop kinda started. Sugarhill Gang talked about nothing essentially deeply political or any sort of thing like that. Hip hop is too versatile to be cornered into one arena because then we would all be listening to the same type of music and artistic styles.
Teenagers want to bump and grind, show off their dance moves, act a fool and just let loose, therefore parties a la mode de Soulja Boy. His rhymes are still whack.
"You got to know where hip-hop's been to know where it's going"
ReplyDeleteScratch the Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrchxm_BBU&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div